Many of the students and executives in my Kellogg classes express extreme frustration with the inability to have rational discussions on topics that in the past resulted in learning, even for people with different views.
When I am asked what caused this hyper-partisan environment in which people cannot even interact in a respectful manner with one another, my strong opinion is much of it is the result of social media and the construction of “echo chambers” in which people hear and understand only what they want to hear and understand. I believe people can believe whatever they want to believe. Some people may be on the far right, and some people may be on the far left. Where somebody stands is not the problem. The problem occurs when people no longer have the ability or the interest to understand perspectives other than their own. It truly amazes me how people can hear something on TikTok or Instagram or X (formerly known as Twitter) and somehow believe it must be true regardless of the source.
I often tell my students that in a conversation when someone says “I don’t understand where you’re coming from” that it is really an ignorant statement. If you take the time to understand, you can understand. Then you can decide whether you agree or disagree. Said another way, feel free to believe what you want to believe, but take the time to understand why somebody else believes something different. By doing so, maybe both sides can learn something and find some common ground. As my grandfather, Farrell Grehan, used to tell me, “Harry, life is much simpler when you only understand your side of the story.”🤣
I don’t know if you’ve thought about it, but over time I realized that when people say “I don’t understand where you’re coming from,” they usually don’t want to understand; they are just letting you know they disagree. Lately, when I am in meetings and somebody says, “Harry, I don’t understand where you’re coming from,” in a respectful way I ask: “Would you like to understand? Because if you’d like to understand, I’m happy to explain it to you and then you can decide whether you agree or disagree.”🤣
So, in reflecting on the “Ask Harry” question for this post, “How can we address extreme polarization, cynicism and distrust of knowledge and wisdom?” I did a fair bit of reading and research. And the best source I have found to help me think through this so far is a wonderful book by Dr. Francis Collins, one of the leaders of the Human Genome Project and the former head of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). The book is titled, “The Road to Wisdom: On Truth, Science, Faith and Trust.”
As Collins states: “We are in serious trouble when some believe that their faith requires them to distrust science or when others believe that political allegiances are a better source of wisdom than truth, faith, or science. To be clear, this is not just a problem of one end of the political spectrum; no political party has a monopoly on virtue or truth. …something deeper in our culture is wrong. In many aspects of our daily discourse, the links between science, faith, and trust seem to have been broken.”
Collins does a wonderful job of articulating what we need to do to get back on track by focusing on truth, science, faith, trust. I cannot do justice in a short summary, but I will provide a few important points:
TRUTH: It is very hard to have rational discussions if we cannot even agree on what is true. I wasn’t even aware until I read the book that there are actually several million people that belong to “the flat earth society” who don’t even believe that the world is round. Until we improve our education system to the point where everyone understands what truth is, it is hard to have any basis for reasonable discussion.
SCIENCE: In the past, there was a good deal of trust in our science community. Somehow, we’re now in a world where many treat science with incredible cynicism. This is not to say that science should not be questioned. However, for example, when 95% of world scientists believe there are severe climate issues we need to address, maybe it would be worthwhile to believe them.
FAITH: Collins discuss the importance of faith in his life, which is something I share in mine. Again, people can believe different things. However, it is amazing how people of faith, regardless of what faith it is, often share a desire to respect one another, listen to one another and willingness to change their mind.
TRUST: As a result of a common understanding of truth, and appreciation for the value of science and the importance of faith, it becomes possible to actually trust one another.
In summary, I am an optimist. I really believe if we listen to one another, give one another the benefit of the doubt, treat people the way we would like to be treated, we can reduce the extreme polarization with which we now live and create a better world for our children and grandchildren.
Harry – Thank you for sharing your perspective. I always find your insights thought-provoking and valuable, and I appreciate the introduction to Dr. Collins. Regarding today’s discourse, I remain optimistic about meaningful change, though I recognize the significant challenges ahead. Extreme polarization and distrust of knowledge are deeply entrenched, and the complex systems driving them won’t be easily or quickly unraveled.
Still, change begins with individuals—by listening, seeking understanding, and modeling the trust and respect we wish to see. As Gandhi said, “Be the change you want to see in the world.” For this change to scale, many more must commit to the same. While the journey is long, I remain hopeful that as more people care and remain open to learning, like you have, incremental steps can create a ripple effect capable of transforming even the most complex systems.
I respectfully disagree with the assumption that by listening to the other side, one can come to shared beliefs. As my father, a refugee from Nazi Germany, always reminded me,” It could happen here”. I would always reply that this is America, not 1930s Germany. Unfortunately, he was so right. When we have a government that does not believe in science, fires all inspector generals, appoints totally unqualified people to major positions, and pardons vicious criminals it is time for all democracy
loving Americans to make your voice heard. That does not happen by understanding the other side. We know full well what the 2025 project presents for the future of our country. First they came for the immigrants, and I did not speak out,………………………… We know how this poem ends and it is not pretty. I am so disappointed that you,
Harry Kraemer, is not speaking out.
I believe Robert De Niro said it best:
Robert De Niro’s statement on Donald is perfect. Please read it:
“I’ve spent a lot of time studying bad men. I’ve examined their characteristics, their mannerisms, the utter banality of their cruelty. Yet there’s something different about Donald Trump.
When I look at him, I don’t see a bad man. Truly.
I see an evil one.
Over the years, I’ve met gangsters here and there. This guy tries to be one, but he can’t quite pull it off. There’s such a thing as “honor among thieves.”
Yes, even criminals usually have a sense of right and wrong. Whether they do the right thing or not is a different story — but — they have a moral code, however warped.
Donald Trump does not. He’s a wannabe tough guy with no morals or ethics. No sense of right or wrong. No regard for anyone but himself — not the people he was supposed to lead and protect, not the people he does business with, not the people who follow him, blindly and loyally, not even the people who consider themselves his “friends.”
He has contempt for all of them.
We New Yorkers got to know him over the years that he poisoned the atmosphere and littered our city with monuments to his ego. We knew first hand that this was someone who should never be considered for leadership.
We tried to warn the world in 2016.
The repercussions of his turbulent presidency divided America and rattled New York City beyond imagination. Remember how we were jolted by crisis in early 2020, as a virus swept the world. We lived with Donald Trump’s bombastic behavior every day on the national stage, and we suffered as we saw our neighbors piling up in body bags.
The man who was supposed to protect this country put it in peril, because of his recklessness and impulsiveness. It was like an abusive father ruling the family by fear and violent behavior. That was the consequence of New York’s warning getting ignored. Next time, we know it will be worse.
Make no mistake: the twice-impeached, 4-time indicted Donald Trump is still a fool. But we can’t let our fellow Americans write him off like one. Evil thrives in the shadow of dismissive mockery, which is why we must take the danger of Donald Trump very seriously.
So today we issue another warning. From this place where Abraham Lincoln spoke — right here in the beating heart of New York — to the rest of America:
This is our last chance.
Democracy won’t survive the return of a wannabe dictator.
And it won’t overcome evil if we are divided.
So what do we do about it? I know I’m preaching to the choir here. What we’re doing today is valuable, but we have to take today into tomorrow – take it outside these walls.
We have to reach out to the half of our country who have ignored the hazards of Trump and, for whatever reason, support elevating him back into the White House. They’re not stupid, and we must not condemn them for making a stupid choice. Our future doesn’t just depend on us. It depends on them.
Let’s reach out to Trump’s followers with respect.
Let’s not talk about “democracy.” “Democracy” may be our holy grail, but to others it is just a word, a concept, and in their embrace of Trump, they’ve already turned their backs on it.
Let’s talk about right and wrong. Let’s talk about humanity.
Let’s talk about kindness. Security for our world. Safety for our families. Decency.
Let’s welcome them back.
We won’t get them all, but we can get enough to end the nightmare of Trump, and fulfill the mission of this “Stop Trump Summit”